Dr. Kasia Kines On… The Link Between the Epstein Barr Virus and IBD
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In this week’s episode of The Cheeky Podcast for Moms with IBD, we welcome Dr. Kasia Kines, an internationally recognized expert on Epstein-Barr Virus (EBV) infections. Dr. Kines, with her extensive background in clinical nutrition and her role as the CEO and Founder of the EBV Global Institute, brings invaluable insights into the often-overlooked connection between EBV and IBD.
If you’ve ever felt that something was off, maybe what you’re going through doesn’t fit the typical pattern of anything you’ve been diagnosed with, this episode is tailor made for you.
Join us as we explore this complex and often misunderstood condition, especially in its reactivation form. You’ll be amazed at just how many illnesses actually link back to an EBV infection—including Crohn’s and Colitis. Dr. Kines shares her expertise on what proper EBV testing looks like and she shares how you can get tested without even involving your doctor.
We dive into what effective treatment strategies look like and the empowering role of self-advocacy in managing chronic illness. This conversation is filled with eye-opening insights that could transform your approach to IBD management.
This is a powerful one. Don’t miss it!
Tune in To Learn About:
✅ [07:50] Struggling patients, unanswered questions, frustration in healthcare
✅ [20:11] Dr. Kines surprising discovery about IBD while writing her book: The Epstein Barr Virus Solution
✅ [31:06] An AMAZING research opportunity to work with Kasia for those newly diagnosed IBD
✅ [34:03] How immunosuppressive drugs play a role in reactivating EBV
✅ [54:27] Kasia’s Ultimate EBV Healing Bundle
✅ [1:06] EMF exposure and Wi-Fi hygiene
Join us for this enlightening episode and empower yourself with the knowledge to navigate your IBD treatment with confidence and hope.
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Mentioned in the Episode:
>> The Ultimate IBD Diet Decoder Quiz
>> Join The Gut Love Community for Moms with IBD
>> Book Your FREE IBD Consultation with Karyn Today
Connect With Karyn:
Connect With Kasia:
The Epstein Barr Virus Solution Book by Dr. Kasia Kines
Episode Transcript:
Karyn [00:00:08]:
Hey there, mama. Welcome to season two of the Cheeky podcast for moms with IBD. I’m Karen Haley, functional IBD nutrition and wellness coach and Crohn’s warrior. This podcast is all about us moms because our IBD plays by different rules. Season two is juicy, full of unconventional wisdom, real talk, new ways to tackle our illness, and a whole lot of community empowerment, and all of us advocating the hell out of our illness. We’re in this together. And I’m here to help you find healing on your terms.
Karyn [00:00:42]:
Let’s do this.
Karyn [00:00:49]:
Well, hello, dear one. How’s it going? How’s it going for you today on my end? I gotta say, I am positively giddy over here to introduce you to doctor Kasia kinds. She’s so brilliant and educated, yet as you’re going to see, she’s also personable and really down to earth at the same time. And what she is dishing on is going to.
Karyn [00:01:13]:
It’s like it’s going to blow your.
Karyn [00:01:15]:
Mind because no one is talking about this important topic, which makes this episode a must listen or a must watch if you’re here with us on YouTube, when she connects the dots between the Epstein Barr virus and so many illnesses like ms and lupus, cancer, chronic fatigue syndrome, psoriasis, vagus nerve dysregulation, thyroid issues like Hashimoto’s, type one diabetes, celiac connective tissue disease, and the list goes on and on. But what I brought her here to talk about today is the link between EBV and IBD. And holy how this conversation does not disappoint. It’s an eye opening. And really, I have to say, it is a must listen for anyone, anyone with Crohn’s or colitis. So please, together, let’s be the conduit for our circle, and let’s share this episode with your IBD friends, with your IBD communities, whether it be in person or online with fellow IBD family members. Because this is game changing. It’s really, truly, it’s a game changing conversation for all of us in the IBD world.
Karyn [00:02:33]:
So this is definitely one you’re going to want to listen to and to share as well. Before we get to the interview, let me tell you a little bit about Doctor Kasia Kynes. She is an international authority on the Epstein Barr virus. You’re going to hear us throughout the episode. Call it EBV. Just like inflammatory bowel disease goes by IBD, we’ll be talking about it in terms of EBV. She is a doctor of clinical nutrition. She’s the CEO and founder of the EBV Global Global Institute.
Karyn [00:03:02]:
She’s a board certified nutrition specialist with not one, but two master’s degrees, including a master’s in clinical nutrition from the prestigious Bastille University. And she’s also a best selling author, Amazon bestselling author of the Epstein Barr Virus solution, Doctor Kasia Kinds. And as she prefers to be called, Kasia. She brings her wealth of knowledge to this discussion that’s so often overlooked, that connection between EBV and IBD. And if you’ve ever felt something that you thought, well, that’s just a little bit off, or maybe you thought, what you’re going through, it just doesn’t fit the typical pattern of anything that you’ve been diagnosed with. This is absolutely the episode Taylor made for you. We delve into what EBV is. We talk about, it’s a link to mono.
Karyn [00:04:00]:
You may have had that in your younger years, but mostly we talk about reaction activation syndrome that has the potential to happen in your, or occur in your adult life. We explored the nuts and bolts of the virus like symptoms, diagnosis, what proper testing looks like, because, trust me, your doctors are probably getting it wrong, according to Kasia. But the best part of this conversation, the best part is what Kasia shares with us in the scientific research about the causal link, not correlation, but causal, actual cause and effect links between EBV and certain types of IBD.
Karyn [00:04:39]:
Huge.
Karyn [00:04:40]:
And we also talk about the link between immunosuppressive drugs. And those are something that if you have IBD, you’ve probably had experience with. So things like steroids, immunomodulators, like six MP, as well as all of the biologics, we talk about their link as being a gateway to eBV. And we do also talk about treatment as well, including a discussion about Kasia’s ultimate EBV bundle. Bundle. But we also spend time talking about the vital role of empowerment and setting boundaries and stepping into your power, and how these facets are just as important a treatment tool. And so we also talk about how hard these qualities are to embody for all of us, especially for those of us who are empaths. And I have to tell you, I have never, never met an IBD gal who wasn’t an empath.
Karyn [00:05:39]:
So this absolutely relates to you, my friend, this episode. It’s your roadmap. Your roadmap to understanding a critical and rarely I maybe if ever talked about aspect of IBD that you might just be missing. You know, statistically, around 95% of the world’s population is a carrier for eBv. So chances are, if you’re listening to this today, the chances are extraordinarily high that you’re a carrier yourself. And what that means for you is that given the right circumstances, this dormant virus has the potential to come out in you. How can you prevent that from happening? What can you do if it does happen? Why is IBD at the center of all of this specifically for us? These are the questions that we’re going to answer today. Please help me welcome Doctor Kasia Heinz.
Karyn [00:06:37]:
Welcome, Kasia. I am so happy to have you on the Tiki podcast. Thanks for joining us.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:06:43]:
It’s so good to see you again. It’s been a long time.
Karyn [00:06:45]:
It has been a really long time, actually, I wanted to start there. So your path as a clinical nutritionist, I know it didn’t start out with Epstein Barr virus. In fact, when we met, way long time ago, when you were living on the east coast, you were actually specializing in. Correct me if I’m wrong, I think it was Sibo. Small intestinal, bacterial overgrowth, or even just gastrointestinal issues, GI issues, and sibo in particular. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So tell me, what caused this change? What happened that you then began to focus on eBv?
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:07:20]:
The universe happened. That’s what happened. Well, I always, you know, like a dog, I always follow where my nose goes, and the nose goes where the pain is. And so I was at Hopkins with Doctor Mullen. He specialized in Sibo, so I worked a lot with that. But then that led me to Hashimoto’s autoimmunity. But in general, I was the clinician of last resort. So I had a lot of complicated cases, so to speak.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:07:50]:
People that tried everything had a pile of labs, big bills from all the functional doctors, and they were not getting better. So I had to follow that pain and follow what presented and follow what I needed to know. And there was a percentage of, you know, it’s in clinical life, we are humans, so we tend to focus on the negative. So if I was able to help 100 people change their lives, but there was one I couldn’t, then we focus on that one. You couldn’t amplify it and say, why? Why? Why? So I always ask the question, why was I hitting a wall with some of those beautiful souls? Like, we were doing everything right? What was I missing? And that’s a frustration in a lot of clinicians, actually. And at the same time, half a year before I was ready to move to the States permanently, one of my best friends ended up in er, out of the blue, half paralyzed, and was diagnosed with miss. You know, this was. We lived close, relatively close to Chernobyl, you know, northern Poland.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:09:05]:
Chernobyl is south, but still, you’ll never know. But when I moved to the States, she began his journey, her journey, fighting for her life. And basically, I tried, you know, I became a nutritionist. I tried long distance. I didn’t really know how to help her with miss, but I always ask, you know, why did she get it? I didn’t. She did. What? Why was it? And I was asking the question. She was fighting.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:09:36]:
She was the most extraordinary person. And eventually it took her almost 20 years, and she died of complications.
Karyn [00:09:46]:
Wow.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:09:47]:
And I wasn’t able to help her, and that was really painful. And she basically is the reason why I kept asking why she died, why I couldn’t help her, what was it behind it? And the universe delivered. Basically. I started to bump into things. And then a couple of my patients at the same time asked me my educated opinion on the book medical medium. And not that I had time to read, but I was flying to a medical conference. I said, okay, well, if one, I could ignore. If three, like, I have to read it.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:10:24]:
So I read it on the plane and almost fell off my chair, because, like, what if it’s Marlena? And so I actually. I actually had a colleague who was a medical intuitive, and I asked her, and she confirmed it. You know, it’s just, why did she develop it was that started with EBVDev. And I think Marlena has orchestrated a lot of things in my life moving forward. So I didn’t miss. I didn’t miss anything I was not supposed to miss. So while there’s absolutely no training whatsoever anywhere, I am the training now. There’s no train.
Karyn [00:11:01]:
You are.
Karyn [00:11:02]:
Yeah.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:11:02]:
But there was this one instructor in my doctoral program, one. And he only did one semester with one class, and I was in that class afterwards. He was not rehired. And he talked about virology, not specifically ebv, but he, like, that was like that crack that not open for me clinically. And I started to look at things differently and pursue it. And so from that on, I just had to say, okay, if medical medium had this huge claim on the extreme left, and he says the spirit of compassion tells him what it is. And then there’s medical community. And I realize medical community has no current information whatsoever on this virus.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:11:49]:
What they’re doing clinically is so inappropriate that it’s almost like medical malpractice because the literature is there.
Karyn [00:11:59]:
Yeah.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:11:59]:
So you have those two camps, and then in the middle you have thousands, probably millions of people falling through the cracks and getting worse and sometimes dying. And so I thought, well, what do we know? What can I solidly put in place for everyone? So maybe these start talking and people get better.
Karyn [00:12:21]:
And as it turns out, a lot, because you’ve written a book that is like, you can’t see me if you’re listening to the podcast. But turns out there’s a lot of information on EBV, because.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:12:34]:
Yes.
Karyn [00:12:35]:
And in fact, where’s mine? Here it is.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:12:37]:
Right here I have it.
Karyn [00:12:39]:
What a book it is.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:12:41]:
What a book it is. A lot of book. I was just. Because I had to cut, you know, there was so much noise and there was so much misery in people with eBv. And, you know, so the first thing I. After that medical conference, the first thing I did is started to request testing and analyze medical literature about testing, testing, lab interpretation, what actually, how do we test what is appropriate and how to read it and all that stuff. And so. And I pursued it with my clinic, with my patients, and I was blown away because we started to see it.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:13:15]:
And these were the tough cases. These were the people that, you know, were sick and tired, being sick and tired. Tell me what to do, I’ll do it. I just. I need my life back. Beautiful people.
Karyn [00:13:25]:
You know, I definitely want to get into the diagnosis part of it. I want to get into testing part of it. But before we even get there, let’s back up a little bit, because so many people will come to me and say, what is this Epstein Barr thing? Like, I keep hearing about it. I’m not sure. Like, let’s just even break it down. Let’s start there. As a lay person, right?
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:13:47]:
Yep.
Karyn [00:13:48]:
Listening. What is the Epstein Barr virus? And then I really want you to hone in on the difference between dormant and then reactivation later in life.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:13:58]:
Okay? So. Huh. The virus has been on the planet for 910 million years. So we, most of us are carriers. 95 plus percent of global population has it. And, you know, it doesn’t mean that we get sick. It’s just like parasites or candida, you know, that we just. We have all these residents.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:14:18]:
But it is an opportunistic virus that can be triggered when your body or your emotional state, your spiritual state, whatever piece of you, becomes very vulnerable in compromise. And for many reasons, many reasons. If you. So, for example, you’re very stressed, and you have chronic stress. Chronic stress causes depletion of nutrients, if your nutritional status drops, and then you eat junk food on top of that, that actually, in studies, you can see that can reactivate ebv. It feeds off that. It feeds off stress hormones, it feeds off deficiencies. Like, if you compromise this way.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:14:56]:
So there’s a lot of reasons why it can reactivate. And so oftentimes, people with chronic eBv, these are people that had trauma, that had a lot happen in their lives, that had, you know, a lot of surgeries, lots of losses, a lot of changes. I mean, that you pile it up in their life and it’s like, how did they even manage? But that’s where you can start. Yes, there’s typically a tipping point for the body.
Karyn [00:15:25]:
And so that’s where it would then, because it’s dormant, like you said, maybe I’ve read up to 95%. So you said 90, 95% have it, it’s dormant. But then something in their life happens, maybe a chain of things, like you’re saying multiple stressors, medical issues, and then it reactivates. And this is when it can become chronic.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:15:47]:
Yeah. So the, the infection typically is called mono. Mononucleosis, glandular fever in different countries. And so it’s the. And that’s the one form that is recognized in medical practice. And so typically you’re thrown in bed. It’s like the worst fluid of your life. You achy, you have malaise, you are in bed, and you may stay in bed for a few weeks.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:16:16]:
That’s typically, you know, that’s probably mono.
Karyn [00:16:18]:
Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:16:20]:
And the doctors, if you go to the doctors, like we have, old studies suggest 3 million documented, reported cases of mono a year in the states. Probably underreported, you know, because not everybody gets to the doctor when they’re so sick. They just stay in bed. So it should last about four, six weeks. And then, and that’s a misconception in medical community. You know, go rest. There’s nothing we can do. And then after a few weeks, you’ll be fine, and that’s the end of EBV.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:16:50]:
You’ll never get it again. That’s all right. That’s really wrong information. And so some people will do, you know, jump back on their feet and they’re fine, but there is a percentage that will not. And suddenly your baseline of your functionality has dropped. So if you were an athletic marathon runner, and we have those in our community, you can’t run anymore. You get too exhausted and you are bedridden again, like something happened, something shifted, and so suddenly you have to be careful with your energy, where you spend it. You don’t have reservoirs.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:17:26]:
You get, you know, you get tired easily, and then you get brain foggy, maybe achy. And it just is underlying something. And then you start pursuing different therapies and doctors and testing your heart out because, you know, something is off and you don’t know what it is, but not necessarily connecting to mono because your doctor told you mono is mono, you get mono, you don’t get it. Again, that’s it. You know, over. And anything in future with your health has nothing to do with that. And that’s also misinformation, not based on medical literature.
Karyn [00:17:59]:
Yeah. So much misinformation.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:18:02]:
Yes.
Karyn [00:18:02]:
Yeah.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:18:04]:
And so there is a concept in medical literature called chronic mononucleosis syndrome, and it really matches chronic fatigue syndrome. And I would say that probably majority cases of chronic fatigue is really ebvdev.
Karyn [00:18:21]:
Yes. Oh, my gosh, yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, so many illnesses are related to EBV. You go into many of these in your book. And I really, I want to focus on IBD and its correlation to EBV. But before we even get there, especially for the listener who doesn’t really understand the far reaching ness of this illness, can you just tell us just off the top of your head, just a few, what are some of these illnesses besides IBD that can be linked to ebvdev?
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:18:53]:
Yes. Where do I start?
Karyn [00:18:56]:
I know, I know. I just asked you, like, this question that could last the whole podcast, but even just a few, because it’s crazy how far reaching it is.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:19:05]:
Yes. So there are. Okay, so one cluster is autoimmune disorders. Lupus is classic. Rheumatoid arthritis, juvenile rheumatoid arthritis, diabetes type one, Mas. Celiac, actually. And these are not correlating. These are really causation.
Karyn [00:19:29]:
Yeah.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:19:30]:
Like. Yes. Celiac in particular, diabetes type one, we have studies on that. And IBD. Two, there’s a study specifically on how it’s turned on by the virus. There is a laundry list of oddball autoimmune disorders, common autoimmune disorders, and at some point I can go into pubmed. You know, these days, I don’t doubt. So if there is a new condition, I’m thinking I’m going to go to pubmed, like interstitial cystitis and ebv.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:20:05]:
And it’s really, I never thought of the connection, but there it is.
Karyn [00:20:10]:
Wow.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:20:11]:
So when I was writing the book, I actually had to stop, and IBD was the last thing I added because I was. This is very interesting because I was finishing the book, you know, and the book was so big, it’s like, you know, we have to get it out. And I’m thinking, well, I used to work with IBD, and why don’t I just check? I had no idea that I would find these studies and they would be so consistent. Like what? Yeah, and then there was one study in particular that was suggesting that some specific kind of Crohn’s disease is a misdiagnosed IBV as well. What?
Karyn [00:20:54]:
Wow.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:20:55]:
So, yeah, so it is. And then there is a cluster of types of cancer, lymphomas, Hodgkins, non Hodgkins, lots of cancers. There’s more studies on breast cancer. And breast cancer is pretty driven by toxic log, environmental toxins and ebv response, really, to environmental toxins, too. So I don’t know, they were looking at, you know, that the tumors were more aggressive. There was more to this cancer where EBV was there. They’re looking at correct rectal cancer, too. There are some associations so far.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:21:29]:
So all kinds of cancer, and then all kinds of weird presentations, you know, lymph nodes enlarged over sensitivity to mosquito bites, nosebleeds. I mean, there’s just a headaches. 75% of people with mono, in particular have headaches as a presentation, and people don’t realize it. And then you can have liver enlargement, you can have spleen involvement, you can have connective tissue involvement, vagus nerve involvement. It depends where, you know, encephalitis, you can. You can have the virus going to the brain vestibular nerve in the inner ear. That can cause vertigo, tinnitus. So you can have viral encephalitis.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:22:16]:
I mean, it’s. Can be in thyroid. So that’s your hashimoto’s? Hashimoto’s is common. That’s a common, common causative, you know, for. For hashimoto. So, yeah, so in many things. And functional medicine is failing because they’re pursuing the little things. So if somebody has three autoimmune disorders, if they don’t see that umbrella, they may pursue things like therapeutic diets that are unnecessary because they’re not really hitting the virus.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:22:52]:
And so if you work with a virus, you can expand on the diet and have more nourishment rather than being stuck on a highly therapeutic and highly restrictive diet. There’s interesting.
Karyn [00:23:04]:
So we’re used to the western doctors failing us, but you’re saying even functional medicine doctors are missing the boat here and going in direction. Yeah.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:23:15]:
Unless I train them, I don’t know what they’re doing. And so the problem is, if you go to a functional doctor and they know a little bit about it, they will throw at you everything. They will combine antiviral medication, homeopathy, botanicals, so herbs and supplements, and typically the typical. I have a, I actually am doing a lecture at a medical conference, and I’m going to use this quote because it’s so common. I love my nd. We’ve been working on EBV for two years, and I’m 25% better. It’s like, what? So it’s like a real, it’s a little bit like c boy, you know? Yeah. Going and going and swinging around.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:24:00]:
Around.
Karyn [00:24:00]:
Yes.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:24:00]:
They’re not hitting another wall. And, you know, they’re throwing ozone therapy, iv vitamin c therapy, you know, red light therapy, whatever. And people will travel and, and wait in line to see a dog, famous doctor for four, six months, as sick as they are, because there’s a glimpse of hope that they will do something. And then it’s very expensive. And at the end of it, somebody was saying they were doing ozone therapy or hydrogen peroxide therapy. Right. $1,000 for three months. And, and then apparently they are the 10% that doesn’t respond like, oh, my gosh.
Karyn [00:24:42]:
Unbelievable.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:24:43]:
So I had to pursue, I have to follow the science. I had to follow the medical studies. That’s all I had to foundation. So it’s black and white. This is what it is. And so if people have ebv, the process I created is solid because it’s just, I’ve seen it. I see what it does. It has.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:25:03]:
If you have ebv, it has to work. There’s no other.
Karyn [00:25:06]:
Based on the research.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:25:08]:
All based on the research.
Karyn [00:25:09]:
So what they’re doing is basically throwing spaghetti at a wall and just seeing what sticks.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:25:14]:
Yes. Because, you know, like, common thing in, in supplement industry is, you know, the more the better. No.
Karyn [00:25:23]:
Right.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:25:23]:
I just talked to a new student in our program. She was on about 50 supplements, including a lot of those being essential oils.
Karyn [00:25:31]:
Oh, my goodness.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:25:32]:
And my concern was like, how’s your liver doing? This is too much the body. Well, funny that you say I have non alcoholic fatty liver. We have to remove all that and only focus on these things that we know work for ebv and start building you up.
Karyn [00:25:51]:
Are you, like many of us with Crohn’s and colitis, turning to food to help heal your gut, but feeling overwhelmed by the myriad of gut healing diets out there? Gluten free, dairy free, paleo SCD gaps. And that’s just naming a few. It can be so confusing, frustrating, and leave you feeling disheartened about which diet is the right fit for you. And trust me, I was there until I created the best tool to help me figure this out. Now, maybe you’ve tried a diet or two only to give up quickly because you couldn’t figure out what to eat. Or maybe the plan was just too strict for you to follow. Here’s something you won’t hear from the so called food gurus. There isn’t one single diet that works for everyone.
Karyn [00:26:39]:
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Karyn [00:27:28]:
Got three minutes? That is all you need. Go to karenhaley.com quiz. That’s karynhaley.com quiz. Answer a few simple questions and get your personalized quiz results immediately. Now let’s get back to the show.
Karyn [00:27:47]:
So many different illnesses related to it. And then the problem being that when you go to your doctor, they’re throwing just everything at it, not really following the research, not having a honed in approach. Well, when it comes to Crohn’s and colitis. And the reason why I really wanted to talk to you is because, I don’t know why, but there is now an abundance of people, my clients, that come to me and say, you know, I think I might have ebv. And I went to my doctor and they said, oh, either I got the brush off, no, you couldn’t possibly have that. You have IBD. You couldn’t have EBV too. Or they did the testing.
Karyn [00:28:24]:
Well, it’s dormant. You don’t have it, right?
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:28:27]:
You had it in the past. Yeah.
Karyn [00:28:28]:
Yeah, exactly. You just had it in the past. And so I just started researching and researching and I’ve seen different research studies. So what I’m wondering is what really is coming first here? Is it the chicken or the egg? I’ve seen research that says EBV leads to an IBD diagnosis. Then I’ve seen research that says when you have IBD, you are at greater risk for ebv reactivation. What is it? What is coming first?
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:28:59]:
I think EBv may be first. And I think the reason why in your community, you may be seeing and hearing more of EBV now is because medical medium has put the topic on the table, which is great. People are talking, people are seeing it. Maybe my book is there, you know, I don’t know. I’ve had some podcasts and stuff like that. But then I feel like if you. If you just get into that, I think this is what will happen. If you just have a diagnosis of IBD right now, like, you haven’t had it for 30 years, you’re just starting.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:29:38]:
And if you can pursue EBV at this point, I think there is a great chance that you could have a turnaround before the damage is done. It’s like it’s way, way on its way. So I’ve been thinking about our conversation. Like, we could even create a small group and try that and see with people that are new to IBD how far we can take it and see if we can help them. Like, if we can create a new pattern. Because in my community, I work with a lot of people with IBV, but people with IBD are not, not coming. So we don’t have that subdivide sub population. So I can’t really talk to that here today.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:30:22]:
But I’m thinking, well, we would have a great opportunity if we had like a pilot, ten in a group and worked together for a few months. Would be amazing to see would be.
Karyn [00:30:33]:
I will definitely mention that to my community because there are people that are just recently diagnosed and it would be interesting to get them the ebv testing to see where are things at for them.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:30:44]:
Yeah, we can totally have analyzing their results, get together and educate. Yes, that would be really fun.
Karyn [00:30:54]:
We would definitely further the research because I know that I’ve been looking at it. There is some research, there’s a lot of research, but there needs to be more in this area in particular.
Karyn [00:31:06]:
Hey there, it’s Karen interrupting this juicy conversation for just a quick second. I wanted to let you know I talked with Kasia after the episode, and she confirmed that she’s absolutely willing to work with a small cohort of newly diagnosed IBD patients to see if EBV may have been a factor leading to your diagnosis, and this would be a great way to help your own understanding of your illness, but also a good way to further the global understanding of both EBV as well as IBD. So if you were recently diagnosed with IBD, let’s say one year ago or less, and you’re also interested in finding out what role EBV may have played in your diagnosis and more importantly, what treatments might help your symptoms, go ahead and email me helloarenhaley.com. that’s karynhaley.com. helloarenhaley.com. I will put you in touch with Kasia and her team to see about working together. This is a huge opportunity. It’s so nice of her to offer this to our community, so definitely don’t pass this up if you’re new to IBD and feel free to let others know as well because I will put them in touch too.
Karyn [00:32:27]:
The email to let me know if you’re interested is helloarenhaley.com. let’s see what we can do to further these diagnoses together.
Karyn [00:32:38]:
And speaking of research, I’m a total research nerd. You know, when people, like, curl up with a good book, I like to curl up with study because. And just kind of, like, suss it out. Is this because we know there’s so many bad studies out there, right? What the heck? Who paid for that stupid study?
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:32:55]:
Did they even have any? Yeah.
Karyn [00:32:58]:
And that’s where you have to start, is who actually paid for this study? But I love to do that. So I was reading this scientific review, and maybe you’ve read it, too. It’s linking. It’s about ebv and IBD research. Just a scientific overview. It was in frontiers of immunology. Okay, so there’s this quote that I would love for you to help me unpack. All right, here’s the quote.
Karyn [00:33:20]:
I love this. So inpatients with IBD and opportunistic EBV, latent eBV. So we’re talking about non active EBV can transform into EBV related colitis, lymphoperifelative disease. So like lymphatic diseases and occasionally lymphoma. So cancer. This transformation, here’s the key part here, is likely related to long term immunosuppressants or biologics and chronic inflammation itself. Can you please help us break this down? This possible relationship between common IBD meds, ebv, and then some pretty serious health complications. Is there truth? Is this true?
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:34:03]:
Yes. So there was another study that looked at IBD and EBV, suggesting, look, the immunosup, if people have EBD because of the virus, the immunosuppressive suppressive therapy is probably not the direction to go. The immunosuppression is an open door to reactivating the virus. And so, so in my community, for example, I can ask this question, did you ever have to take corticosteroids for any reason? And if the answer is yes, I will ask and say, did you feel like you’ve been hit? You were hit by a truck? Because with immunosuppressant medication, you may have a honeymoon when you feel elated, like, whoa, I am cured. But that’s just, you’re turning off the immune response and then you tank. That’s the presentation, ebv, then you’re going to chunk. And because the ebv has open doors, like, immune cells are all stopped, I can do what I want. Immune system is keeping ebv in check like any other pathogens, parasites, you know, any, any bugs we’re co hosting.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:35:25]:
So, yes, so there are studies suggesting that, you know, you have to know where that IBD comes from. Interpret the lab correctly, which I can’t wait to talk to you about for your community. So they will forever know.
Karyn [00:35:39]:
Yeah.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:35:40]:
And then you really need to be careful where you’re going with it because the immunosuppressive medications are really life altering in themselves.
Karyn [00:35:49]:
Gotcha.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:35:49]:
And calm with. It’s a heavy cost on the body.
Karyn [00:35:52]:
Oh, absolutely. And it’s a, you know, is it worth it? You know, you kind of have to weigh all of that depending on where the disease is.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:35:58]:
You need them for life. Life threatening situations. In emergency, you need them. That’s when you need them short term.
Karyn [00:36:05]:
Right, right. And the problem is, especially with IBD, it’s, you’re on this for life once you start, you’re on it for life. But what’s happening is before they’re going on the medication, they’re always tested for tb. So I’m wondering if it should be standard of care for testing for ebv before you go on this. Oh, this is huge. Yes, yes. Yeah, this is really big. This is going to be big news for people to hear.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:36:33]:
It’s big news. However, it takes, what, 17 years for medical information from, from studies to actually trickle into medical practice and use it. So I think your community needs to advocate, like, I ask women what to ask their doctors to test for. Thyroid, for example, because that’s also a hot mess. In tragedy. So your community needs to advocate and expect the doctor to add ebv panel, tell them exactly which panel, and in the worst case scenario, go to a consumer direct lab because they do exist, pay out of pocket, get it done and get the report in two days and have it black and white without the doctor messing up the panel because that happened.
Karyn [00:37:25]:
Right. Okay. So let’s actually, let’s get into that now. Now that you, I was going to do that a little bit later, but let’s, since you brought it up, let’s talk about it.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:37:31]:
Yeah.
Karyn [00:37:32]:
So testing, you mentioned in your book about testing, getting the right testing because so many people are getting testing that is useless. Right. And so, yeah, so I want to get into, when you want to get tested, what are the tests that you should request? Because that’s what patients need to do. They need to go to their doctor and say, here, this, like, let me just give you this piece of paper. This is what I want. That’s the only way to get what you need. You just say here, this is what I want. And then how do they make sure that they have this definitive diagnosis and if they don’t have a doctor? I know I’m giving you a lot of questions, but you already alluded to it.
Karyn [00:38:07]:
You can actually go on your own and get the testing. So talk to us about testing.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:38:12]:
Yes. What should we know? Yeah. So people don’t know that you can, you can test independently whatever you need, ladies and gentlemen. You don’t have to beg your doctor and wait three months to see a functional doctor because you want a particular test. And then I mess it up for you and then you paid them and it’s a mess and you just wasted three months. So we actually have a link to a consumer direct. They created the panels for us. So, you know, I know what they give.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:38:43]:
They don’t mess it up. So, you know, you can’t, you can do that. Totally. So the problem with the lab testing is when do you go and test your lab? So, because if you just go now, you probably, the result will look like you had infection in the past and not now.
Karyn [00:39:05]:
Okay.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:39:06]:
So I have to explain that there are four antibodies that I want you to test. I don’t want you to test PCR, which is the DNA. You’re not going to find DNA in the bloodstream. The virus doesn’t live in the bloodstream.
Karyn [00:39:20]:
Right.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:39:21]:
It only lives in the bloodstream when it spills out of the cells. It’s called lysine and travels. And this is where people reactivate when they really, really, like, on their back.
Karyn [00:39:33]:
In bed, traveling to their organs, right?
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:39:35]:
Yes. Because it’s looking for b cells to infect. These B cells will be in your thyroid, here, there, you know, but they don’t even.
Karyn [00:39:43]:
Haven’t they found ebv in the mucosal lining of people with ibDan?
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:39:49]:
I don’t remember that. You probably know more studies on IVD than I do.
Karyn [00:39:54]:
I feel like I read that in a study that they have found it.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:39:59]:
I wouldn’t be surprised. Yes. But it’s going to go after cells and live inside the cells, so not like in the bloodstream. Four antibodies, three of them are igg and one of them is igM. Okay? So if you. If you talk to any medical doctor, igg to them is fast exposure. Igm is current exposure. It doesn’t work this way with ebv.
Karyn [00:40:26]:
Okay.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:40:27]:
Okay, so I need you to see igG, igM, the igM, the one igm in the panel. This typically becomes elevated if this is your initial infection.
Karyn [00:40:41]:
Okay.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:40:42]:
When you have reactivation. Reactivation, reactivation. We have chronic ebv that will be normal. So pretty much guaranteed igm is normal. Squatch. Squatch. And this is where your doctor says, well, this is normal. This is only your past has nothing to do with what you’re dealing with.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:41:02]:
But that’s not correct. This is counterintuitive. So if doctors don’t read medical literature on EBV, particularly in particular, they will think I’m looking for IGN for current infection. If it’s normal, you don’t have reactivation. I have very few cases when igm is always elevated, and that’s more of a complicated situation. So let’s scratch that for now because typically 99% of the cases will be normal. So you have three iggs. Okay.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:41:37]:
Yeah. Out of three iggs, if you forget everything else, you need to just remember early antigen. Ea. Early antigen is igG, but that’s the one. That’s the one that pops up when you have first infection, but it pops up when you reactivate. Every time you reactivate, it should pop up. Okay, so if it pop ups. So let’s say the.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:42:05]:
The ranges from zero to nine. If you have ten. Yep, yep, yep. It doesn’t have to be like 300.
Karyn [00:42:12]:
Yeah.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:42:13]:
With early antigen, you don’t have to have triple digits. You don’t have to have like, you know, 50, 70. The highest I see is like, what was it, 282? Extremely high. In terms of early antigen, it doesn’t go like, to 900 or 600, like it’s typically, you know, 2030 50, and that’s still positive. People are still sick. So early antigen is the one that labs typically don’t put in the panel. So even when you ask your doctor for ebv panel, if they don’t know, they’ll get the three others. But this will be missing.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:42:51]:
And this is where you do not have the whole case. You don’t know what you have because there’s two others. These are tagged for life. Both of these are elevated in my life, but I’m living my life. So when you have chronic ebv, these will not be zero. And if you recover for ebv, these will not go back to zero. We’re tagged for life. But as you reactivate, they will fluctuate, reactivate fracture.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:43:20]:
And if you work on ebv, like, if you’re doing the protocol, they will be dropping numbers. And sometimes they are, like, over the range. So if the range is 600, it will tell you more than 600. So if both of these can be triple digits, even though the range may be zero to nine. So these two can be like. So if. If you go beyond, like, more than 600 or more likes more than 750, so it’s going above the range. You don’t know if it’s 751 or 7000.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:43:54]:
So the point of these two is if either one of them is above the range that, like, the numbers are not even given because it’s too high. If eventually they drop. So you have the number, let’s say 598. Huge success. People don’t realize that it’s starting to drop and fluctuate, drop, fluctuate, drop, fluctuate, drop. So maybe from 500 to 400 or to 300, that indicates that you’re doing something right.
Karyn [00:44:25]:
Okay, that’s good to know. Okay.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:44:27]:
But it will fluctuate with early antigen reactivation. Reactivation. Now, so that’s the two. So early antigen. This one. The problem with it is you have to catch it. When you reactivate, it’s only like two, three weeks. You can miss it.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:44:43]:
And this is why, when early antigen is normal, I give you an example. I was training practitioners, and my colleague, fellow nutritionist, was in my program, and she says I have a classic presentation. I’m pretty sure cbv, everything fits. The only problem is, when she tested, early antigen was normal.
Karyn [00:45:06]:
It just wasn’t the right time.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:45:08]:
Yeah, she has hashimoto. She has this fatigue. Da da da da da da. When did she test? January. So my question was, when did she feel like she was hit by a truck thanksgiving gotcha. Thanksgiving is stressful.
Karyn [00:45:24]:
Yes, that’s right.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:45:25]:
So by the time, by the time she tested the early on to January. So the. The lysing already stopped. And then you are in the latent stage, which is between reactivation, which actually is very active for the virus. The latent state is more important for the virus than lysing because lysine. So when you look at studies, the virus depends on latent stage more because the b cells keep replicating during the latent stage. Yes. So they kind of are immortalized.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:46:06]:
So the. It’s cloning, the new virus are growing inside. It’s like. So it’s like this perpetuation. The lysing is the reactivation when you are thrown in bed, is when the virus are ready to spill out of those infected cells and they travel in the bloodstream and they’re looking for condo to move in.
Karyn [00:46:30]:
Which organ can I move to?
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:46:32]:
Which organ is it going to be? Yes. And so the point is that you have to know the tools to keep everything in check and to make sure that between reactivations, you immobilizing all these processes.
Karyn [00:46:49]:
Yeah. And so they don’t replicate.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:46:52]:
So you stole all this and it’s like.
Karyn [00:46:54]:
Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. So just for people who are listening, who are maybe because I. My podcast is, you know, a lot of people listen, but mostly moms. And so they. Maybe they’re driving in the car or they’re doing some house chores and they can’t. Or they’re at work and they can’t write this down. There’s somewhere on your website, right, that has a link so that they can just say, because I know they trust you, so they’ll just say, cautious dad, I should do this.
Karyn [00:47:19]:
So this is what I’m going to do. So where do they go on your website to just get this information?
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:47:24]:
There are. So we created a website where we only provide factual information with references that are clickable. So you can go to Pubmed. But on our homepage, we have two things that you can do. Number one, there is a button. Test your ebv, and you don’t have to use that lab, but you can test on that link. And you will see that there’s different panels that the company created. And there is a panel for ebv.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:47:54]:
And you can write down those four markers. They’re right there. You’re going to see three igg and one igm. That’s all you need. But if you are like, if you’re like Karen and you want to dissect it. Then at the very bottom, there’s a list of pages listed, like different topics. And one of the page is labs. And if you click on that page, I have an entire page analyzing different lab results.
Karyn [00:48:27]:
Oh, wow.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:48:28]:
When you go to this page, there’s a pop up. And the pop up invites you to a free video that I did with whiteboard and color markers. When I draw those four antibodies and explain it to you, it’s about 15 minutes. This was a Facebook live and it’s completely free. You have to say, yeah, I want it. We’ll send you the. And then you can really educate yourself and your doctor. You are bulletproof.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:48:57]:
Nobody can question you. This is what it is. This is how it is. This is research. This is solid. So you can always go to that and watch that. And kind of the colors are important in the book. I couldn’t show the colors, unfortunately.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:49:12]:
It’s black and white. But so even if you have the.
Karyn [00:49:15]:
Book, go check this out. I mean, so many people who listen are like me, and they want the real skinny and they want to really get it. So if you want to go in depth, it’s beautiful because Kasia has this as well. So you can just get, these are the four tests I need, and just bring them to the doctor or bring them to the lab. Or you can go more in depth and figure out the why behind all of it, because she has all of that. So I love that.
Karyn [00:49:40]:
Thanks so much for tuning into the cheeky podcast for moms with IBD today. The great information we’re dishing out on this pod is exactly the same type of, of conversations I get to have with my clients every day. If you’re ready to take your IBD healing journey to the next level and move into being the mom you always dreamed you’d be, hop on over to karenhaley.com consult and book your free IBD consultation with me. Remember, my mom had to be a little bit different and spell my name with a y. So it’s karynhaley.com. on our call. We’ll dive into what you’re struggling with most right now and make a plan for how we can work together to help you achieve your big, bold, beautiful, life transforming goals. No more sitting on the sidelines waiting for that miracle cure to magically happen.
Karyn [00:50:33]:
You’ve got what it takes to do this right now, mama. You just need a little nudge in that right direction, and I’ve got your back. Karenhaley.com. and now back to the show.
Karyn [00:50:44]:
So let’s say, now we know we’ve gone through it, we know we have this diagnosis. I know that you talk about how unfortunately there is no magic pill. It’s not like you can say, well, you have ebv, take this one pill, even take a 30 day supply and you’re going to be cured. There is none of that, unfortunately, as we all know, with a lot of chronic illnesses. So it sounds like this. Well, maybe I’m wrong. There’s a lot of starting places, but you talk a lot about supplements, and that, again, is on your website. There are several supplements that you recommend that people take when EVB is a factor in their life.
Karyn [00:51:22]:
But I, and I know people can go and see that, but there’s a couple that I wanted to ask you about specifically. One of them is selenium. Yeah, I love this because I feel like selenium is one of the most underrated nutrients that people just don’t talk about. So besides the fact that were mostly depleted in selenium, why do you recommend selenium for ebv?
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:51:47]:
So what you’re talking about is on our website, we have a link to supplement website and I created a bundle, we call it ultimate bundle for ebv. And that’s where you start. And selenium is in it. In order to get to the bundle, the supplement had to meet many criteria. For me, selenium does meet those criteria. It has to be an antioxidant because ebv creates a massive, colossal numbers of oxy, free radicals, lots of oxidative stress damaging the cells. It has to be a multitasker. Selenium has so much value.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:52:33]:
Selenium will help create for you. It nourishes the thyroid. Thyroid cannot support you without selenium. And it is depleted in soil. We’re not getting enough from food because the soil doesn’t have enough. Selenium is an anti ebv. It has specific pathways in which turns off the virus. So it has all those benefits, but the magic is in the dosage.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:53:04]:
We go pretty aggressive. We go as aggressive as clinically, you know, shown in medical research, and that’s what it takes. So in, on the website, I obviously don’t disclose that because I don’t want people to hurt themselves and do it on their own.
Karyn [00:53:22]:
Right.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:53:22]:
But even 200 micrograms can make a huge difference, especially for women. It’s the thyroid, it’s the liver support. It’s a lot of stuff. So when, so what we created is I want to educate and empower people. So on our supplement website, every member of the bundle, including the selenium. When you have the selenium product, you have a video training on selenium that I did.
Karyn [00:53:56]:
Amazing.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:53:57]:
I love that I explained that. And then under that we have an infographic, like a graphic with summaries and when to use it, when not to use it, you know, so it highlights all the benefits within EBV and outside of EBV because I need people to understand and be empowered and know why they’re using something so they are motivated, because it’s not a quick fix. You know, you have to stay on it and drill it down deeper into the cell. Yeah.
Karyn [00:54:27]:
I love this part of your website. I really just want to highlight it because if you’re thinking about this at all in your life, go to this website, go to this supplement section, because you break it down like I’ve never seen before. So not only do you talk about the supplement and just the generalities, but then there’s a YouTube, a short, it’s not a long, it’s a short YouTube clip that tells about the supplement and why you want to use it for EBV. And then you’re. And then you even have the infographic that even breaks it down further. So everybody needs to see this. That’s why I said we don’t have to go into all of them. Because if you really want to know about Doctor Kyne’s protocol, you can go there.
Karyn [00:55:06]:
But I just wanted to ask you some questions specifically. So the other one I wanted to ask you about is vitamin C. That’s part of the protocol as well. And I know that you mentioned iv vitamin C, so I’m curious. And then you say that it isn’t really for everybody. There are some people that it isn’t for. Would that be a good way to go, you know, right into the vein, the iv type of c for somebody with IBD. Right? Don’t know.
Karyn [00:55:35]:
Don’t know. Yeah. Okay. That’s okay.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:55:36]:
I’m so the problem is a little deeper.
Karyn [00:55:42]:
Yeah. Okay.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:55:43]:
You don’t develop chronic EBV. And also you don’t develop IBD if you’re living your life, if you’re walking your walk, if you’re seeking your truth, if you say no when you need to, if you have good boundaries, if you are just solid in your life. Right. There’s something that makes you vulnerable in this life and this is why you get. It gets in your gut. Right.
Karyn [00:56:08]:
Right.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:56:09]:
So when we’re looking for a solution for something like that, EBV and IBD we’re looking for a solution for the whole person. Who am I? What happened to me in my life?
Karyn [00:56:21]:
Yes.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:56:22]:
You had to do that?
Karyn [00:56:23]:
Yes.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:56:24]:
It’s not just iv. You can go and, you know, I have people go to iv therapy, they get vitamin C, they pay for it, they feel better for a few days, they go home and then it weans all, you know, it stops working, they have to go back. So it’s like a crutch. Do they have any empowerment? No. Do they have the tools they can use at home? No. What if the doctor retires? What do they do? This is not a sustainable tool. And yes, vitamin C IV doesn’t work for everyone. The doctor needs to test you for a particular enzyme that you may be lacking.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:57:02]:
And if you lack that, enzymes and do IV therapy with vitamin C, that is threatening, life threatening. That can be very dangerous. And people can get really sick. You can literally like, lyse your blood cells.
Karyn [00:57:14]:
And I haven’t heard of this, but I was reading about it in. Maybe it was on your website. G six PD is the name of this enzyme, correct.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:57:22]:
They should know that enzyme. They should, they should. This will be part of the protocol for any doctor that uses vitamin C therapy, IV therapy, they know that they need to test that.
Karyn [00:57:32]:
That’s interesting that you say that they should know, but I have had IV therapy at various places, you know, pre surgery or this or that or tired or whatever, and nobody has said to me, you should be tested for this enzyme. And these are at functional, well, like good clinics. So I’m gonna have to bring this information to my doctor and say, why have I not been tested for this?
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:57:56]:
Awesome, awesome, awesome. That is exciting. Yes.
Karyn [00:57:59]:
Go, go do it. Yeah, yeah. For sure.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:58:02]:
So, you know, it’s like you said, if people have cancer and surgeries, this is vitamins. Vitamin C IV is great, but in terms of recovery from chronic illness, it is helpful temporarily, but it doesn’t give you any tools. It’s not empowering, it’s not. You know, what I have to teach people is if you need to change this, you have to change your life. You have to change the concept of yourself, of how, what you say, what you don’t, what you do, what you don’t, when you delegate, when you have to say no and mean, it boundaries. Yeah.
Karyn [00:58:37]:
It’s bigger than just a supplement. It’s really. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:58:43]:
So I don’t know about your community, but within ebv community, you know, like every species has, based on studies, about 20% within every species are empathetic. Individuals. But in my communion, it’s like 90, 95.
Karyn [00:58:58]:
That’s right. That’s right. Yes.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:59:00]:
It’s probably similar in your community. These are the people with a heart on their sleeve.
Karyn [00:59:04]:
Exactly.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:59:05]:
That works against you because you’re over giving, overdoing, overachiever.
Karyn [00:59:10]:
Perfectionist. I can’t. It doesn’t make sense. But I’ve been doing this work since 2010. I have not met. I’ve worked with hundreds of women. Not. Not one of them didn’t fit this profile.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:59:23]:
Yeah.
Karyn [00:59:24]:
Overachiever, empath. Anxiety leads to the anxiety. Overdoing. Trying to be the best. Right.
Dr. Kasia Kines [00:59:30]:
All of it overcompensating. So, ladies and gentlemen, I’ll say, I’ll drop a bomb on you when you strip everything, all the therapies, you know, counseling. And if you look really at the. The one sentence I can say that probably is leading to all of this is the bottom of it, is you don’t feel you’re enough. There’s something in your upbringing in life that was telling you this information. You’re not enough. You have to do something to be enough.
Karyn [01:00:02]:
That is huge.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:00:04]:
That is huge.
Karyn [01:00:05]:
Simple, but huge. Huge. I really hope that people are just taking that in and listening to it. I relate to that. It resonates with me completely. I mean, I’m a work in progress. I continue to work on that constantly. I don’t think I’ll ever be completely healed.
Karyn [01:00:25]:
I always work on it.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:00:26]:
It’s a human condition. But when you realize that, okay, I actually am enough today, and I don’t have to tell my boss, I’m gonna work after hours on Fridays. So, you know, it’s like, I remember one of my students said, I’m gonna go. So we had that conversation. I’m gonna go to my boss and tell him. So she was a paralegal, and she said, I just wanted to tell you I will not work on Fridays. I signed up for part time, and that’s what it is. I will not.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:00:54]:
You know, if you need more, I’m gonna walk away. And the beautiful thing, ladies and gentlemen, is when you step into your boundaries and your power, people really respond to it. Oh, my gosh. I totally get it. Nope. No more Fridays. You are so good. I so appreciate your work.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:01:11]:
I want to keep it. Don’t go.
Karyn [01:01:12]:
Yes.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:01:13]:
She goes. Finally.
Karyn [01:01:14]:
Speak up. Yes. When you step into your power and you.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:01:20]:
Because you feel. You feel you’re enough, you can do that.
Karyn [01:01:24]:
Yes.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:01:24]:
That’s the human condition. This is the. You know, this is the thing. So I feel like the empathetic community are the healers, the canaries in the mind. And if we can turn this around, and I have goosebumps now, my biggest job in my community is not to just help them physically, but to help them with this journey so they are empowered and they start shining their life and walking their walk and doing the advocacy and I practicing what they came here to do, you know, being of service and shining their light. There’s nothing better on this planet than to do that. And if you heal those parts of you and you are able to do it, you know, the physical parts, they have to heal. I would believe that they have to heal.
Karyn [01:02:14]:
Yeah.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:02:14]:
And if they heal only to a certain degree, then you know what you have and you ride with it. You are peace, but you know who you are.
Karyn [01:02:23]:
Oh, gosh, that’s huge, too. Yes, yes. Yep. At some point, just knowing. Yes. What is it? But just bringing. Yeah. Having peace with what is rather than what I wish was.
Karyn [01:02:37]:
And I’ve had to work on that myself as well.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:02:39]:
Yeah, yeah. With IBD, I think that’s a big one because, yeah, you can’t always reverse engineer it. Like with ebv. Straightforward, just eBv. Like, if you have ebv alone without any bucket full, like IBD is a bucket, you know, you have this. If you have straightforward ebv, you will recover and you will live your life. So you are, you know, it’s easier, but if you have IBD, at some point, there’s some damage done and you just have to work with that.
Karyn [01:03:07]:
But you, especially if you’ve had surgeries like me. So, yeah, I have to work with what is, you know, I can’t. I can’t put that intestine back. So, you know, you can thrive.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:03:19]:
You can still thrive with it.
Karyn [01:03:20]:
That’s right.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:03:21]:
You can totally thrive.
Karyn [01:03:23]:
Yeah, yeah. By being at peace with what is. This is a really great place to wrap up, but I just want to add that I got to show this book one more time because we’ve only really scratched the surface here. There’s so much in here. We haven’t got into food, we haven’t got into lifestyle, which is so huge. Well, we just did a little bit detoxification, having metals. I mean, just a wealth of information. So the biggest takeaway here is to get the right testing.
Karyn [01:03:57]:
Get the right testing. Now, you mentioned at the top that, you know, if you’re just diagnosed with IBD, that’s the time to get the testing. But let’s say you’re like me and you’ve had it for 35 plus years. Is it still valuable to get tested or only if you’re symptomatic at that point?
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:04:16]:
I don’t know. I mean, if you want to test, you know, if you want to test with a purpose, then you want to test. If you’re curious, then you want to test now when your functions are where you are and when you have the lab report, you know, I would write on it like I tested it when I felt, you know, stable, you know, my typical, you know, functionality. Maybe like seven out of ten normal.
Karyn [01:04:43]:
Yeah.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:04:44]:
And then when something happens and you start going down, you test right there and then without waiting. And then, you know, you have your lab results and you write on it. You know, I test it when I talked because something happened, you know, there was a divorce or something, and then you look at the markers and see what you see.
Karyn [01:05:03]:
Gotcha.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:05:04]:
Because otherwise, if you test at one time, what does it give you? You probably will have normal igm, you probably will have early antigen normal, and the two will probably be elevated. But you need context, right.
Karyn [01:05:18]:
So it’s not one and done, right? Not one and done. Yeah.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:05:22]:
I can have the same result, two different people, two different circumstances, and two different, like, background information and two different conversations based on similar presentation in labs. So that’s it. That’s the trickier part.
Karyn [01:05:36]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I like that you mentioned that because it’s important to know. I feel like earlier you were talking about testing and saying that, retesting and retesting to see where you’re at at different times during treatment. So it’s. Yeah, it’s kind of like Sibo or Lyme disease or. You know what I mean? You don’t just test once. And so many doctors make that mistake, especially with, well, you tested positive. Let me give you some antibiotics and then you’re done.
Karyn [01:06:06]:
So it’s kind of like that. It’s like you have to continually be on it and retest and see where you’re at when different life events happen.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:06:14]:
To understand the patterns. Yes.
Karyn [01:06:16]:
Yeah.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:06:16]:
I want to bring one more point before we go because it’s a low hanging fruit and people, and I remember when I was writing my book, I asked Doctor Pizorna, who was the founder of Basturia University, he’s brilliant and brilliant in toxicology. I asked him to review my book and his only observation was not to talk about EMF because there’s not enough validation in research and I’m going to be criticized for it. I didn’t follow his idea, but I have to tell you, over the years, this is the lowest hanging fruit. We have to have a Wi Fi hygiene. I am. I ask every person coming in. I have a quiz, so I know what people are doing and I know the trends. And one of the most alarming trends is that people are using their phone as alarm clock.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:07:05]:
It’s unacceptable that people are using earpiece that is wireless. It’s unacceptable. Please don’t do that. That people, though, are not aware that I have a smart meter and they don’t do anything about that. Please remove that or put it in a Faraday box. It’s not expensive. It’s easy to find. And then your wifi router, get a kill switch so you can turn it off with a button before you go to bed and put it in a Faraday box.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:07:36]:
These things will really help your cells regenerate and work because you’re inundated on cellular level with radiation.
Karyn [01:07:47]:
Huge.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:07:48]:
It’s huge.
Karyn [01:07:49]:
Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:07:50]:
It’s huge. And it is very detrimental. This stuff reactivates cbv and people, like, people are stewing in it, and they have no, they have no idea.
Karyn [01:08:02]:
It may be your headaches or it may be the cause of your joint. I mean, you have no idea how it’s impacting you. Yeah, I need to do more. So I’m glad that you mentioned that, because I’ve done some of those things, but I definitely need to do more. And I know there’s a whole chapter in that, in your book as well.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:08:21]:
You know, it’s an old book, so there’s. There’s simple solutions these days that were not available then. Oh, good.
Karyn [01:08:27]:
So there’s even updates. Yeah, gotcha.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:08:29]:
Yeah, I mean, you know, like I told you, you can get, you can, you can clean that up. I mean, you can get an earpiece called air tube. So there’s air in the tube, so there’s absolutely no effect on the brain when you have, you know, the. The earpiece that you have.
Karyn [01:08:47]:
Like the one I have right here. Yeah, exactly. And I’m thinking, well, I don’t have the wireless ones, so I’m doing much better, but it’s still an inch an issue, huh?
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:08:58]:
Yeah. You still have a little bit of. A little bit going to the brain.
Karyn [01:09:02]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Gotcha.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:09:04]:
Anyway, so. Yeah, yeah, take a look at that. Especially if you have kids, because kids, their brains are still developing. It’s very dangerous technology. I’m not a parent. If my kids had phones, I would not be able to look at them. Hold that next to the brain, there’s studies on that, there’s brain tumors. I know of young women that died because they always, one woman always carried her phone in one particular place.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:09:34]:
She developed cancer right there. She died. It’s like people are not hearing about research, but it’s there. There’ve been studies, there have been illegal against tech companies, against the technology. So it’s a big deal.
Karyn [01:09:52]:
Yeah, it really is. It really is.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:09:54]:
Yeah. Moms are listening. Moms, you have to, you know, figure something out.
Karyn [01:09:59]:
Yes, exactly. Do what you can. I mean, they’re here to stay, but let’s do what we can to make everything as safe as possible. Now, this podcast, just, if you have just a couple minutes. This podcast is oftentimes we go deep and it’s kind of down because we talk about really serious things. So I like to end on a positive note, if you don’t mind, just a really quick lightning round, just some super quick questions, and they’re fun and light and easy. Is that okay with you?
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:10:26]:
Oh, yeah.
Karyn [01:10:27]:
Okay, here we go. So what is your favorite go to healthy snack?
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:10:32]:
My go to healthy snack? I would say apples or pears.
Karyn [01:10:39]:
Oh, yum. Yeah, yeah. Especially when they’re in season, right? You can’t beat it.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:10:43]:
Pears in season.
Karyn [01:10:44]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. What is the one supplement that you can’t live without?
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:10:53]:
That would probably be a combination of adaptogenic herbs. Because I have a lot of stress and so I just have to manage, you know, lifestyle isn’t what it is. It’s taxing on the body, so it’s a little buffer for me. It’s a combo of adaptive drink herbs.
Karyn [01:11:10]:
Yep. Okay, awesome. What’s your favorite form of exercise or movement? Exercise or movement. What do you like the best?
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:11:18]:
Well, surprise, surprise, the exercise that I love is my walking meditation, scooping poop for my three horses. I do it every day. That’s so bad. Actually, I’m developing a little thing here that’s so great.
Karyn [01:11:34]:
Good for your muscles, but also good for your soul.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:11:37]:
Yeah, I don’t like the gym. I need, you know, you need to exercise with purpose. And the thing with the brain development or brain react reaction when you’re on a treadmill is very repetitive. The brain needs challenges. So you need to be on uneven turf, you need to stumble, you need to go into the mud like I do. There’s ups and down and you have to adjust and, you know, the brain has to adjust. So the idea of exercise is walking in natural terrain, up and down, trees, logs. That is actually exercise.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:12:10]:
We are designed to walk. We walkers. So you will never see me in the gym.
Karyn [01:12:16]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:12:17]:
Not worth it.
Karyn [01:12:17]:
I love it.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:12:18]:
Real air, no oxygen. Phew.
Karyn [01:12:21]:
Exactly. Exactly. Me neither. What’s one thing that you do on a regular basis that really helps you connect with your spirit, your soul, whatever that means to you? What’s something like self care that you do?
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:12:34]:
I talk to my spirit guides all the time, and I also have a particular spirit guide with me sister.
Karyn [01:12:42]:
Oh, she’s showing a picture of her horse.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:12:45]:
She was not my horse. She was my friend horse. And she’s up there now, but now she has wings. I understand.
Karyn [01:12:53]:
Oh, my goodness. Beautiful.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:12:55]:
And she’s white now, and she loves my guardian angel. So we’re looking for the farm for my three adopted horses now with her help. So I work with my spirit guides.
Karyn [01:13:06]:
Oh, lovely. What do you think is the house? Is a big question, but loaded, but try to keep it as brief as you can. What is the most misunderstood thing about EBV, in your opinion?
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:13:27]:
Big question you had.
Karyn [01:13:30]:
Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Your doctor said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:13:34]:
It’s nothing to do with what you’re going through. Yep. I would say.
Karyn [01:13:37]:
Now we’ve mentioned the medical medium, so this might be your answer. But when somebody says to you, what’s a good book that you recommend? What’s the one book that you go to over and over other than your own? What’s the one book that you go to over and over and you say, you have to read this book?
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:13:53]:
About what topic?
Karyn [01:13:54]:
Anything. It could be fun. It could be medical. I mean, just any book that you. That just speaks to you, that you say, oh, you have to read this book.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:14:02]:
Um, I don’t read it again and again, but I love. I have it. I’ve given it as gifts to friends. And it is, uh. Charlie ho. It’s a beautiful, magical book. The boy, the horrors, the Fox, and, oh, boy, my titles. I can’t recall titles.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:14:27]:
It’s a little bit like little Prince and Winnie the Pooh. It’s a beautifully calligraphed and graphically beautiful, magical book that talks about life. Who’s invited?
Karyn [01:14:42]:
I want to look it up.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:14:43]:
Charlie.
Karyn [01:14:45]:
Okay. That’s all right. Yeah.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:14:46]:
The boy, the whores, the. There’s four animals with a boy. They. They travel together and talk and have philosophical interest, conversations that are just beautiful in just who we are. It’s. It’s magical.
Karyn [01:15:01]:
Lovely.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:15:02]:
Let me email you the link.
Karyn [01:15:04]:
Yeah, that sounds really cool. Okay. Would you have a favorite travel destination?
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:15:08]:
Travel destination. It would have to be my home hometown in Poland, which is on the Baltic Sea. I miss it. I don’t go there.
Karyn [01:15:21]:
You haven’t been in a while. My husband was just. Well, he’s been several times now in Poland, Warsaw. He’s a psychologist, and they’re working with the ukrainian medical professionals and to try to help them with everything that’s going on there in Poland is really the safe place closest to Ukraine. So they meet there in Poland. So, yeah, he keeps telling me, you have to come. You have to come.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:15:47]:
Well, Warsaw is a very different place. I come from a town. It’s a. It’s a place where every pole want to go in summer at least once in their lifetime. And so it’s a beach place, but it’s not a beach culture like in America. It’s a very healing place and public beaches, and my mom lives eight minutes away from the public beaches. Wow. But also, there is a tri city north of Warsaw that your husband might like to go to.
Karyn [01:16:18]:
What’s it called?
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:16:19]:
Tri city.
Karyn [01:16:20]:
Tri city.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:16:22]:
Dines Gdenia, Sopo. You can’t miss it. There’s the biggest three cities on the water, on the Baltic Sea. That’s where I used to live when I was a. A young adult professional before leaving for the States. That’s kind of my. My base. I miss that.
Karyn [01:16:40]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, coffee or tea? And how do you take it?
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:16:44]:
I never drink coffee.
Karyn [01:16:45]:
Yeah, I hate. Do you drink tea?
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:16:49]:
Yes.
Karyn [01:16:50]:
Yeah.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:16:50]:
Big tea drinker.
Karyn [01:16:51]:
Yeah, me too. Last question. So the name of this podcast is the Cheeky podcast for moms with IBD. And it. It’s very tongue in cheek, because I have to just make a little bit of fun, a little bit of light of what we go through. And to me, being cheeky is about being a little bit quirky, a little bit sassy, and a lot badass. So how are you cheeky in your life?
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:17:16]:
I’m cheeky because I like to do things that haven’t been done. So with no experience with horses, I started to be with horses free in the open wide field, and now I ended up helping a shut down mustang that nobody could touch. Nobody could. Like, she didn’t rehabilitate.
Karyn [01:17:40]:
Wow.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:17:40]:
We fell in love with each other, and I ended up adopting her magically, which was not possible, but I never gave up. And now I have three. I created a herd for her, so we have. She’s a lead mayor, so she has a purpose now. She has two girls. She, you know, she protects. And now I’m looking with sister’s help. I’m looking for a farm for us.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:18:04]:
I’ve never done that before. I don’t know what it means, but I’m literally selling my house now. And we’re looking, actively looking for it. Amazing.
Karyn [01:18:14]:
That’s not sassy.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:18:14]:
I don’t know what is so sassy. We’re doing everything.
Karyn [01:18:18]:
Taking a leap, you know, just doing something new.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:18:22]:
Leap of faith. And I’m not writing them. It’s just a very different concept. It’s a. It’s kind of a pioneering, very natural way of being with those amazing creatures. So we’re GONna have a healing place where I will have retreats, WEEKend retreats. We’ll be cooking, breathing, eating, and we’ll sit down outside and breathe. And if the girls want to come and breathe with us, that’s what we will do.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:18:45]:
So it’s going to be very healing because they still are healing.
Karyn [01:18:48]:
Yeah.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:18:48]:
You know?
Karyn [01:18:49]:
Yeah.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:18:49]:
They’ve been rescued.
Karyn [01:18:51]:
I love that. I love that. Wow. KASIA. Oh, my goodness. AmAzing. And so we did a lot. We dug in a lot here today, but I still feel like we scratched the surface.
Karyn [01:19:02]:
There’s so much MOre to know. So, KaSIA, where can people go to find out more about you and more about the beautiful evb. Ebv. SORRY, ebv. Work that you’re doing.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:19:13]:
Yeah. Everything is on our website. Links from our website. You can sign up for newsletters so you’ll be updated. You know, ebvhelp, like htlp.com. we keep it simple. And I want to finish with. With a plea to all your moms, please.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:19:30]:
You are a beautiful, magnificent soul. You are. You know, we are a spiritual being, having a physical experience. Your spirit is so important. Don’t let anybody take it away from you. You just shine your light, speak your truth, see who you are.
Karyn [01:19:51]:
We need that more than ever in the world.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:19:55]:
More than ever. The magnificence of your body, how intelligent it is, how it’s fighting for you despite all of the mess inside. It’s just incredible. So just know that your body is working for you, not against you, and trying within whatever is given. And never, never give up. And there’s always a way to shine in your life. Just. Just be yourself.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:20:18]:
We need that.
Karyn [01:20:19]:
Oh. Amen, Kasia. Amen. I love it. Beautiful world. Words from a beautiful soul. Thank you so much for being here.
Dr. Kasia Kines [01:20:27]:
My pleasure.
Karyn [01:20:36]:
If this podcast is meaningful for you, if it’s been helpful in your IBD mom life, I’d love it if you would do a couple things. First, follow the pod, you’ll never miss an episode. And those moms who are searching for podcasts about Crohn’s and colitis, they’ll find us easier. There’s probably a plus sign or a follow sign where you’re listening in right now. It’s at the top of your screen. Go ahead and give that a tap. And then also give the Tiki podcast a five star rating and review and share it with your friends who are also struggling with IBD. The more we are open about talking about our illness and bringing awareness around it, the more we’re able to connect and build a safe community around each other.
Karyn [01:21:21]:
I love being in community with you and I appreciate you. You my friend. One last thing before we wrap up today. You know, I think you’re a rock star for taking time out of your busy life to listen in and invest in your healing. It is capital h huge. And the reason I know how huge this is for you is because I am right there with you in all of this, working my wheel of wellness, keeping my crohn’s at bay. It’s something that I invest in every day and I’d love it if we could continue our gut healing journey together. If you’re like me and you’re ready to soak up even more amazing gut healing information, it’s time to join the gut love community@karenheathy.com.
Karyn [01:22:03]:
community the GLC is my free and.
Karyn [01:22:08]:
Fabulous space, dedicated to dishing out even.
Karyn [01:22:10]:
More IBD resources, recipes, healing hacks, lots of BTS secrets on how I manage my life with IBD, all wrapped up in a weekly newsletter to help you keep your momentum going strong. This IBD dish is gut healing insights that I only share within our tight knit community. Basically, it’s your one stop shop for a more diversified approach to true and lasting gut healing.
Karyn [01:22:37]:
Amen to that, my friend.
Karyn [01:22:40]:
Let’s walk this gut healing journey together. Join me in the glc@karenhaley.com. community that’s karynhaley.com community.
Karyn [01:22:54]:
I can’t wait to meet you.